Datensouveränität – Insights aus dem BARC Research – mit Timm Grosser, BARC

Carsten Bange: Hello Tim.

Timm Grosser: Hi Karsten, I greet you.

Carsten Bange: Good too. Great to you back my podcast. Today's is data sovereignty. It's been in discussion now. And we're now towards the Data and AI Summit, our big conference towards the the fourth quarter. And that will course play a role, because especially for Data and AI, is a big topic and you are asked how you deal with how we as a company deal with what it is. So I think it's a relevant topic. And a few months ago we a little survey to give our opinion and the anecdotal information or the stories that you actually hear about, little bit. Tell us a little bit more about the study tips.

Timm Grosser: Yes, of I the study with you. So it was a nice project. We actually in Maist and managed to about 300, or 295 participants about the relevance, the challenges, why they do simply on subject of sovereignty. The study was especially on the German-speaking market. and therefore was most of the participants from the German-speaking area. The industry totally unspecified. Most of came from manufacturing, example. 81 % and actually a very good cross-section. Because if you at the number or the size of we also a good distribution. 42 % of companies that are between 100 and 2500 employees are 39 % are large companies with more 2,500 employees and the remaining percent are of course the smaller companies. So I think there is a good insight.

Carsten Bange: Yes, exactly. And especially when you the data from 300 companies, then you just a bit of basis to statements about it. The first question was, we actually to find whether our perception that this an important topic is also seen How did you the results? Exciting, surprising or actually understandable?

Timm Grosser:

Timm Grosser: It was a very clear result and our thesis was also confirmed. Nevertheless, I it surprising for me personally, because that such clarity. 84 % actually that this is an extremely important topic and that concerns us. Data sovereignty, exactly how does it concrete. I didn't that on the agenda, I knew it was relevant and important, but the companies confirm it again, it's extremely important. Two questions are the beginning, one how important do you it is? 84 % of time it's very important. And also a second question, how important has the data sovereignty grown over the last two years? And you can see that from the results of the study. that also about 70 percent that the importance of data sovereignty, the shadow existence to a strategic relevance, has increased and has So I found that a very significant result from the study.

Carsten Bange: Absolutely. It really the importance. And then we asked one of the questions of this study, namely why is this an important topic? The specific question was, which external factors or events have the importance of data sovereignty in your company? And the background was of that we noticed that this discussion came after the 20th January, the inauguration of Trump, suddenly an American policy looked completely different. And ultimately, of course, many questions. Whether that still such a reliable partner, whether erratic things are That's it's a hypothesis that can set up,

Timm Grosser: Hmm.

Carsten Bange: the political developments in the USA are the main drivers for this discussion. But the study showed a different result, surprisingly, I found.

Timm Grosser: Yes, definitely. But still, touch again, and whoever knows or has your lectures somewhere, data becomes political, as Wilmer that is definitely one of the reasons. But there is a reason why 46 percent of people actually only for second place. But there is something else that data sovereignty even more, and that is actually the new legislative regulations. which we see each So, at the very front, we also have a rework of GDPR. We have the NES2 guidelines, example. We have the EU Data Act. All relevant regulations that also provide on how we should better control how we more transparency into the data. And of course, a great effect on data sovereignty. To give you a few examples. And the third place with 42 % are the cyber security incidents. You don't just as company, but also private person. The data is always There are various data lags and cyber attacks are noticeable when you the media. And these the top three. I would say it's a for the data sovereignty that the study.

Carsten Bange: Yes, data sovereignty means for us to this self-determined control over our own data. And on the one hand, legal regulations that influence obviously play the biggest role, but of course also the issue of security. Because if someone else control over my network, my data, then of course I a huge problem. So that's seen. So ultimately, quite balanced view on it. So quite different factors. compliance, of course also clearly, 46 % say political development in USA, a driver, and then also cybersecurity. So I think that was one of the and most exciting results of the study And then ... please.

Timm Grosser: For me, as an eye-opener, the legal regulations were quite extensive. It's paired with this geopolitical situation. Let's the EU data act, which says you have a self-determination of the data, you can it as you want it. The EU data act is very much on IoT data. If a German entrepreneur has machines from the USA and he always sensor data to the USA, so that machines can waited properly, for example, and he comes up with idea of predictive maintenance and a German supplier for this. then is usually not so common that a simple data exchange takes It is all in the hands of the USA or the US-approved institutions. There is also legislation, the legal restrictions, also the obligation to in America. I think it's called Cloud Act or something like that, that the American government can into the data all This could big hurdle and to to his own data. So this respect, is also big dependency. And I think that's a good example to the relevance of how important and valuable sovereignty is.

Carsten Bange: Absolutely, The question in this study was about the measures. Now we understood that this important and it will be more We understood which are quite diverse. And then the question, what are the concrete measures that you are now, dear company? Maybe you briefly.

Timm Grosser: Thank

Timm Grosser: Yes, the first place we have a strengthening of hybrid strategies. That's actually close. That you such paths. Hybrid strategies don't anything else than, I'll a my data and see where I this data. Critical data, comes to my own computer center. Then I full control. Not too critical data, example. can still to the cloud because it's not that critical if the connection breaks or something is or something else. That's definitely measure number one with 51%. Then have investments in cybersecurity 50%. But I think that's very, very strongly regulated and also from what we also observe now also increasing with the... Ukraine war and other things, I feel, also become stronger in of cybersecurity. And what we still have, now also increased, and that was the amazing in the study, the use of regional and local cloud providers. So they have been significantly strengthened. means least 36 percent that they implement or pack their data Up to 19 percent who say, OK, we go back to on-premises systems and use them again.

Carsten Bange: Yes, that's of course the name I'll I'll say, hybrid strategy is ultimately something else than cloud first or cloud only. Maybe cloud first is even more appropriate. But actually, the trend of last few was cloud, cloud, cloud. Everything there. The future and hybrid means, well, I don't everything.

Timm Grosser: Yup.

Carsten Bange: I think that's a reaction that can be understood and that is perhaps an adjustment of the existing strategy or fits But this enhanced use of on-premises system, you could course say that it is perhaps part of a hybrid strategy to go but 19 % is not so little, think. say, hey, we want to do You also the theme of repatriation, so cloud. workloads quasi zurückzuholen. Das haben aber acht, also ich sag mal nur, ich wollte gerade überlegen ob ich nur sage, aber nur acht Prozent haben gesagt, dass sie das vorhaben. Vielleicht ist das auch schon viel, dass sogar acht Prozent das vorhaben. Aber das ist also dieses quasi ich hole was zurück. Das machen jetzt wirklich eher wenige. Verstärkte Nutzung heißt ja ich hab was oder ich möchte jetzt zukünftig, wenn ich das entscheiden kann, ja tendenziell mehr dann.

Timm Grosser: you

Carsten Bange: yeah.

Timm Grosser: Yes, exactly. I think 8 % is a lot. From today to tomorrow, say that I'm things out of the cloud, against the trend that you everything into the cloud and also latest innovative functionality is only in the cloud. I think that's amazing.

Carsten Bange: Yes, absolutely. think investment in cybersecurity makes a lot of sense. It also exactly to the drivers, if there big driver, that is also invested So I think that fits very well. And these regional local cloud providers are currently experiencing a real effort. So there we a lot of you can see. Even if you a daily newspaper or another medium. Then the successful providers Here in Germany, of course, is mainly Stack-it, but also Yonos, also providers who more from web hosting, from B2C or offers for smaller companies, actually always had hand. I think I really the wind and offer more more professional offers now, so professional in sense of the corresponding customer base, i.e. companies, larger average, to ultimately offer AI services, data banks, data hosting, etc. Do you that too?

Timm Grosser: Mm.

Timm Grosser: Yes, I can but I second perspective. Of course, this not unnoticed by the big also by the hyperscalers, for example, and also by various providers of data and analytics software. of course also start to raise data centers locally, example, to use them to exactly this data sovereignty and the concerns of the customers.

Carsten Bange: Yes, although I think local data centers have always existed or have existed for long time, because Frankfurt is one of main locations in Europe. I would say all big hyperscalers already something but just a data center here is not And that's it's of course very noticeable that exactly this topic, some call it European Southern Cloud or something that, that this already very, very strongly.

Timm Grosser: Mm-hmm.

Carsten Bange: My favorite was Google has very early, has a few software solutions that on-premises. For example, Gimini as a Gen.AI model or as an LLM can also on-premise. And Google actively positioned this as an option for production of data sovereignty, so I can use on-prem software.

Timm Grosser: Yep.

Carsten Bange: Microsoft was very early in process in positioning the protective. I found the communication to quite interesting to read, because it was literally stated that they would use all legal means to the access the American authorities.

Carsten Bange: which is course not a guarantee. I who will understand that. That's of course first of all, okay. And that has course continued. And Amazon is now view. We recently announced that there is also the European Southern Cloud from where then also further guarantees are so to speak.

Timm Grosser: Hmm.

Carsten Bange: how these data are kept That goes after what was presented at of this year at the state. And what exactly happens there is, I think, very interesting. Because it goes so far that not only the accounts are still here, but that they are shut down. So that there no backup in the USA or something. And it goes so far that the employees also corresponding European citizenship. So in the end, just that they don't a different right. I think that's the crucial point because there is exactly this act in the that ultimately does access, even if it's justly defended for something else. But the end there is the legal basis for access, at least in my understanding. And to counteract is, after...

Timm Grosser: You

Carsten Bange: As I understand it, main theme of this European Southern Cloud is in Europe without access from outside, from other countries. And that's not just in the it's also China and other countries.

Carsten Bange: which is not live

Timm Grosser: Yes, but that's what you see. The manufacturer, that's the core statement, is jumping on this train. They also the concerns seriously and react to it.

Carsten Bange: Exactly, and that's also what we see now, for example, at last Data Festival. There was a completely new combination, which is Dremio, which we all know. But then on site was MitStackit, to speak, together in the Huckepuck. And that's of an interesting new combination. That's the local cloud provider.

Timm Grosser: Hmm.

Carsten Bange: Now we new partnerships with the corresponding software providers, which then these possibilities on the local cloud. And of course, that also exciting to see how new partnerships and new cooperations are And think that's a good keyword, because right now, the Data and AI Summit, we the topic very much. I'm very We're a panel discussion. We different perspectives. We will the question in the middle. What can we now? So how does this look very concrete for me as data manager in the company or as an organization as a Which restrictions do I to into account if I to an alternative to the usual model of hyper scaler? What do I have calculate? What about data How do I this classification specifically? And are some interesting questions that can be discussed. This definitely be the topic on the data on the RSNB 12 November. And I think that we can this little more specifically. Where are we now?

Timm Grosser: Yes, will be a big event. I'm looking forward to it.

Carsten Bange: And question is we now. We are already the next issue of our survey. I think that will be exciting again when we, one year later, we want in Q1, when we one year later how it is now. And I'm already super excited about the development. Maybe it even more important or is it, it was such a catch, is it less again now? I don't know. I wouldn't to a hypothesis. So I'm really excited about So, all listeners, if you see us, please take part in the survey, we would be happy if you do We will keep short. So that will be a survey that can relatively quickly and giving a brief opinion would be extremely nice for us. Thank you much for that.

Timm Grosser: auf jeden Fall.

Carsten Bange: Tim, that was a good overview. Thank for us a little insight. Together we will the topic. Data on the ice was mentioned on 12th November. The next study is coming up. So the topic continue with us. Thank you and see soon.

Timm Grosser: Mm-hmm.

Timm Grosser: Yeah, again.

Timm Grosser: Thank you for See soon!